Re: TriX 400 Pushed 3200 & Hc-110

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sanchell
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Re: TriX 400 Pushed 3200 & Hc-110

Post by sanchell »

Greetings, Matteo.



The choice of film and developer. Tri-X used to be the BEST film for pushing, until Kodak changed the design of the film, moving it towards T-grain construction. Second, neither Rodinal nor HC-110 are ideal for pushing film. A better choice would be D-76. An even better choice would be X-tol or Ilford DD-X.



I have found that Ilford HP5+ pushed to EI 3200 and developed in DD-X 1:4 is the best option. I use 75F for 18 minutes with agitation for 10 seconds at 1 minute intervals. The results are far superior to anything you will obtain with Tri-X and any developer. Have a look at the pushed photo on page 53 of the 3rd ed. of the DCB. In any case, the only way to know for certain is to expose and develop a test roll prior to committing to an assignment.



If DD-X and HP5+ are not available in Bogata try Tri-X in D-76. For test purposes only try my time and temperature with HP5.
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Re: TriX 400 Pushed 3200 & Hc-110

Post by sanchell »

If you can find D-76 try using it undiluted. If not, then get some DD-X and HP5 for next time. Good luck.
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Re: TriX 400 Pushed 3200 & Hc-110

Post by darkroommike »

Wow, even back in the day Tri-X was rarely pushed more than two stops, that's EI1600, and personally i don't consider HC110 to be a "high energy" developer like Acufine, Microphen, or Rodinal. That said, if you want to try semi stand development in a Paterson tank, process only one roll at a time in a two roll tank, that way you can do 1+60-ish; 9ml concentrate + 600ml water (close enough to dil. H) or 1+100, 6ml concentrate + 600ml water and stand develop. I'm not sure what time to use, but I doubt you could over develop with this situation. This would not be my first choice (not even my 3rd or 4th) but it's what you have to work with. [I would also test these combos before committing to client work but that's just me, I like testing.] But if you have a No.3 safelight in a Kodak bullet housing, and a 7.5 watt bulb you could pre-flash the film one stop and then process at EI1600, probably not worth the extra work.
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Re: TriX 400 Pushed 3200 & Hc-110

Post by darkroommike »

One man's sauce is another man's cyanide! I, too, would like to see an example.
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Re: TriX 400 Pushed 3200 & Hc-110

Post by sanchell »

The simple answer is that there appears to be a way to upload images to posts. However, being new to using this BB I haven't yet figured it out. As soon as I do I will post it in announcements.
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Re: TriX 400 Pushed 3200 & Hc-110

Post by andynguyen »

i think it depends on your subject matter as well as the requirement of your assignment. people subjects (aka street or even photography) tend to go fine with "pushing" (under-expose & over-develop), because the shadow details aint too important; what's essential is the photos be made at all & the so-called short-comings of the method might even create the "mood" for the shot. on the other hand, scene shots dont usually benefit from the lack of details in the shadows & the exaggerated grains; so for these situation i'd go with the opposite: over-expose & under-dev.

would like to see your photos once the forum allows upload :) or you can post link to flickr or something?
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Re: TriX 400 Pushed 3200 & Hc-110

Post by sanchell »

The forum DOES have the capacity for image upload. Use the Browse button below the message.



I am attaching two images to this post. The first, Live to Ride, was made in 1982, one of my early attempts at night street photography, using a Nikon F. The film is old-style Tri-X, pushed to EI 1600 using D76 1:1 and the hydrogen peroxide pushing formula found in the DCB. I have not found this technique to be effective with the modern Tri-X emulsion and haven't tried it with HP5+ as that film pushes very well.



The second image, Yvette, was made in 2007 using Ilford HP5+ EI 3200 developed in Ilfotec DD-X 1:4, 18 minutes at 75F. I am able to easily make 16x20" prints of negatives developed using this method.



My own experience is that D76 1+1 is one of the best formulas for pushing film, and HP5+ is the best film to use. The only formula I have used that I like better is Iloftec DD-X. However, DD-X is often difficult to find whereas D76 is readily available in most parts of the world. In fact, in the '70s I knew a photographer who weighed out the chemicals for 1 liter of D76 divided them into 35mm film cassettes, and carried them when he traveled. A bit of thiosulfate, and a one or two reel daylight tank and he could develop film anywhere.
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Re: TriX 400 Pushed 3200 & Hc-110

Post by neal.niemiec »

Hi Steven,



i'm a little late to this thread, but do want to verify - in your Developer cookbook vol.2 - you mention early on that HP-5 is NOT a favorable film for pushing, however, in this thread you're advocating that HP-5 & DDX as the best combination for extreme pushes - superior to any combination of Tri-X? What has changed since the book was published? Lastly, if I'm committed to Tri-X - what is the best developer for 3 stop pushes based on the current version of the emulsion?



Thanks in advance, neal
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Re: TriX 400 Pushed 3200 & Hc-110

Post by sanchell »

Greetings, Neal. First, if you're using The Darkroom Cookbook 2nd edition, don't. There are a lot of errors in that book that were made when I was young and careless. Send it to the recycler and pick up the 4th edition.



At the time I wrote the 2nd ed. I had not fully explored the possibilities of HP5+ with DDX. My experience pushing film was primarily with D-76, which I didn't feel worked as well with HP5. However, I have since found that HP5+ and DDX is an excellent combination. I have also found that Tri-X with XTOL works very well, perhaps as well. I don't have a valid time/temp for Tri-X as i no longer use the film. There are many fine photographers that swear by it, but I find it doesn't suit my taste, which is, of course, part of the beauty of film, we have choices. In digital one pixel looks like another.
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Re: TriX 400 Pushed 3200 & Hc-110

Post by neal.niemiec »

Thanks for the quick follow-up Steve - (will def be picking up the new edition of the developer cookbook!)



for my purposes - 3 stop pushes are for high contrast indoor stage lighting scenarios. I will have to do some testing ultimately, but your input helps my focus on optimizing.



Look forward to testing both tri-x /xtol combo vs. HP5 / DDX combo in the near future.
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Re: TriX 400 Pushed 3200 & Hc-110

Post by sanchell »

I would very much like to hear about the results of your testing.
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Re: TriX 400 Pushed 3200 & Hc-110

Post by neal.niemiec »

Steve - finally getting around to testing some HP5+ & DDX combo you suggested. Albeit I only had to push to 1600 for this, it's still a very nice tonality that isn't all that different from delta 3200 (from my experience). One follow-up question - Do you have any recommendations for prudent sharpening of digitized negatives? not sure how to post an example to this thread?
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Re: TriX 400 Pushed 3200 & Hc-110

Post by sanchell »

I don't know what prudent sharpening is. :)



As far as the difference between HP5 and delta 3200, try making an 11 x 14 (or even better, 16 x 20) enlargement from each negative and let me know the results.
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Re: TriX 400 Pushed 3200 & Hc-110

Post by perfesserkev »

Hi Neal: You'll want to use an "unsharp mask" type of sharpening filter. The greatest errors in sharpening digital files, whether a scan or a camera capture, comes from to big of a "radius" there. That's the number of pixels on either side of the edge being sharpened that are affected by the contrast change. Slide it to the lowest setting the software will allow: 0.3-0.5. The default is something like 5 on most software. Then use a higher "amount" than the default. Default is about 25. Try 100 to 150 with the radius set low.



That's all for display rather than making a neg, so you may find different settings give you a better result. But that's how I'd make sharpening prudent.
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Re: TriX 400 Pushed 3200 & Hc-110

Post by sanchell »

I still don't know what prudent sharpening is. But should I ever be faced with such a daunting task I will certainly follow the perfesser's advice.
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Re: TriX 400 Pushed 3200 & Hc-110

Post by neal.niemiec »

Thanks Perfesserkev,



sometimes i feel like it's a fine line b/t under/oversharpening scans, this is helpful.
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