dissolving phenidone

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fyrkrans
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dissolving phenidone

Post by fyrkrans » Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:02 pm

I want to try Mytol, but in my country one needs a special permit to be able to purchase methanol. I don't have such a permit and as it turns out it's not that easy to get such a permit and rather expansive on top of that.

What could I use instead to dissolve Phenidone? From what I read online there are a lot of other approaches; most involve some kind of alcohol. However, as a layman I can't evaluate the different alternatives and am at a loss to be honest.

(It's not my intent to conserve the Phenidone, I really just want to dissolve it properly and then use it for Mytol.)

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sanchell
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Re: dissolving phenidone

Post by sanchell » Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:33 pm

fyrkrans wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:02 pm
What could I use instead to dissolve Phenidone?
Phenidone does not dissolve readily in water, but is relatively easy to dissolve in distilled water at a temperature of about 175F/80C.

It is readily soluble in solutions of alkali bisulfites and carbonates. This allows it to be readily incorporated into a developing solution. For Mytol, instead of dissolving it in methyl hydrate, as Paul Lewis recommends, try dissolving it in a 3% solution of sodium metabisulfite.

Make a stock 3% solution by mixing 30 g of sodium metabisulfite in 1 L of water. Heat 100 ml of the solution to about 125F/52C, mix in the 0.15 mg of Phenidone. Add the 100 ml of Phenidone + 3% metabisulfite solution to the total amount of water to make 1 L.

This may, or may not, work better than methyl hydrate as I have never tried that method. But it should definitely work better than distilled water.
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darkroommike
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Re: dissolving phenidone

Post by darkroommike » Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:37 pm

Phenidone is only slightly soluble in plain water. Good thing we don't use a lot in most developers. It dissolves much more readily in alkaline solutions. It is also soluble in 91% Isopropyl alcohol (drug store item in my country, rubbing alcohol (drugstore item and usually 70% methanol), glycols, glycerin, and TEA, (there are a couple of compounds with the TEA nickname I mean Triethanolamine). I'm not sure where you are from but there are also alcohol based gas tank additives which are 100% methanol or isopropanol. 100% Isopropanol is also sold in electronic wholesale house, used as a parts cleaner.

andynguyen
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Re: dissolving phenidone

Post by andynguyen » Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:52 am

I work quite regularly with Phenidone & I've found that the fastest way is to dissolve it in drug store alcohol, the 90% type. it dissolve quite quickly with minimum fuss

fyrkrans
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Re: dissolving phenidone

Post by fyrkrans » Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:22 am

Thanks for the replies!

@sanchell: Later on I realized that this topic is actually discussed in the book (on page 209 in the 4th edition). Sorry, I missed that.

Water with a temperature of 80°C seems to work well.

I didn't have all too much success when I tried to dissolve the phenidone in a solution of sodium metabisulfite. However, I was sloppy when I tried it. While I used 3g of the sodium metabisulfite I also used more than 100ml water. Furthermore I'm not sure that the water temperature was at about 52°C. So chances are that this actually works quite well if done correctly. Out of curiosity I'll give it another chance the next time.

Isopropanol is readily available around here in a good quality and at a fair price. I'm glad to hear that dissolving phenidone in it works well.

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tomkyle469
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Re: dissolving phenidone

Post by tomkyle469 » Mon May 28, 2018 10:38 pm

Phenidone dissolving in alcohol: Just to be sure, does this really not harm the developer? Or can one say, if I'm stirring in pretty warm water, the “spirit” will go away anyway? How much alcohol will it take? 10ml per 1g phenidone?
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Bill Troop
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Re: dissolving phenidone

Post by Bill Troop » Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:29 am

Alcohol will not harm the developer and may help it (Crawley suggested it for many of his stock solutions). If you cannot get drug store alcohol (for example it is impossible to find in a UK drug store), simply use Vodka, which is about 40% of mostly ethyl alcohol.

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sanchell
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Re: dissolving phenidone

Post by sanchell » Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:49 am

Alternately, you could allow the Phenidone to sit overnight in room temperature water and drink the Vodka. Stir occasionally and use olives.
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tomkyle469
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Re: dissolving phenidone

Post by tomkyle469 » Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:53 pm

:-D *thumbs up*
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